Control panels

[ph49]

I am about to construct a control panel. I have a piece of upvc and wish to draw a track diagram with switches for the points set in the panel at the appropriate places. I hope to make it as neat as possible and seek any advice, especially on where to obtain thin coloured self adhesive strips to represent the track. Thanks in anticipation

[Flashbang]

Hi
I have made at least three panels in the past.

I use car lining tape sometimes called "Pin strip" tape.

Its available in many colours including black and white and is self adhesive.
There are several widths available too. I prefer the narrower versions of around 2.0mm width.

Pre cut all switch holes in the panel after firstly lightly making the outline of where the tape goes in a soft pencil. (Soft pencil is easily removed)

Once all is outlined, drill switch and indication (LED) holes etc. Assuming the switches are to be fitted in the tape, then apply the tape and carefully cut out each hole for the switch/LED and carefully fitting the switches/LEDs so as not to displace the tape.

[ph49]

Thanks very much, this is just what a wanted to know. This is my first question and I am delighted with the information. As a returnee to model railways ( on retirement) I am sure I will use the forum many times. ph49

[andy757]

Flashbang - maybe you can help !

I'm in need of someone building a control panel for my OO gauge garden shed layout which is under construction. Going well so far but electronics are a tad outside my reach.

I've attached a drawing and I guess in size terms, would need to be about the size of A4 paper or there abouts. The unit itself to be made from wood with a plastic panel surface I guess ??

I hope this makes sense:

There are two continuous tracks, RED and BLACK. The small diagram in the centre/right forms part of the two tracks circuit.

BLUE, GREEN, YELLOW need their own power supply for shunting etc but trains will run to/from the BLACK supply. Trains on the RED track will not need to go onto the BLACK as they will just keep going round.

For points, I envisaged a toggle switch over each point on the diagram so that I can change the point simply by throwing the relevant switch. I would supply and fit the point motors to the layout board where required. I would need the wiring/resistors etc to be included in the panel works so that all I have to do is connect everything up at the board and switch on !

The space down the left hand side I've left blank to allow for lighting switches to be added at a later stage and I assume the "power levers/knobs" would be on this side too.

PURPLE point switches ideally need LED's to reflect in correct position, i.e. GREEN when in the correct position for crossing and RED when unsafe !!

I hope this all makes some sort of sense. This is my first attempt at things like this and I'm effectively working with logic !!

Hear from you as and when you've stopped laughing with your thoughts and approximate cost

[Flashbang]

Hi
If feel A4 is perhaps a little too small.
A3 being a better option? I feel it would allow that little bit more room for switches and wiring etc.

Unless you're left handed, consider making the right hand side the area for controllers and any other operation switches etc.

Certainly if the points are all to be solenoid style then use miniature sprung to centre off toggle switches for the point operation. Often called (On)-Off-(Off). A CDU mounted inside the panel will help with their operation too.

Isolating and controller selection switches would be similar miniature toggle switches of the DPDT type.

At times ebay and of course Rapid Electronics are good places to bulk buy toggle switches.

In addition to switches, multipin plugs and sockets will be needed (often Sub D connectors are used) to take feeds out to the layout and low voltage input sockets from any external 12 or 16 volt power supplies.
LEDs (3mm) for point position indications and track feed selection indication can be installed if wanted and these can be either conventional LEDs or 12 volt rated ones with built in resistors.

Construction can be simple light weight timber frame or MDF or Plywood for the basic 'box' shape. The actual panel face can be aluminium, white faced hardboard or even thin white foam board.

All the part needed (excluding controllers) shouldn't cost more than around £40 to £50 including all wires.

I am happy to help guide you through the construction of your panel and it may make a nice article for an 'How to. 'A step by step guide and build' for the forum, especially if photos are taken as build progresses.

I personally don't build panels for others only for my own use. The reason I don't build for others is the time involved, which can run into weeks of part-time work, and the means of arranging delivery and testing after connection to the layout.

[andy757]

Great reply, thank you and the idea of controller to the right sounds good. I'll have to re-do the drawing !!

I think A3 size would be too big as I don't have much space. Would the size of two x A4 be workable ? And, all points and track have already been laid so does that make a difference ?

I'm in no hurry for this so if you are open to maybe building for me, I'd be grateful. Not sure where you are located but I'm near Braintree, Essex. Petrol costs if any can be built into the cost.

The fact is, I need a hand with this and I sure ain't paying the £650 someone else quoted !!!

[andy757]

Fast forward..... I now have the panel made up and looks great. Wiring comes next but I am in need really of a sturdy means of connecting the panel to the actual wires that run from the board. Something that will keep everything nice and tidy, plus not cause carnage when/if I need to disconnect it.

Something I had in mind was a connector from a PC, the sort that clips onto the motherboard rather than the AGP type for printers etc. Maybe even a SCART would work ? It would take some soldering but I think it would be worth the effort in the end.

Anyone - ideas ??

[Flashbang]

Hi
Be cautious over ready made PC leads whatever their type. As most use very fine wires inside the outer sheath. These in the main are not really suitable for model railway power needs.
Though if chosen, you can double or treble up cores for one circuit at the risk then of having to use a second or more cables for the other circuits still to go between panel and layout.

I use D connectors - 25 way ones mainly, but I have once used a 9 way when I needed a couple of circuits to cross-over the panel to layout gap. Avoid like the plague the 15 way 3 row D connectors as they are swines to solder wires to.

I often end up with 2 x 25 way D connector sets and at times even 3 or more 25 way connectors. What I have done is to simply reverse the male and female connections on the panel so as where two D leads are used its impossible to accidentally cross the connections. Where three sets or more are needed, I put coloured strips of PVC insulating tape onto the mating plug and socket. Using a different coloured tape for the other plug(s) and socket(s).

You will of course have to solder flexible wires into the D Connectors and obtain Shells (covers) for them too. I mount either a plug or socket D connector into the panels side then from the layout run a bunch of flexible wires made up into a 'cable' with the aid of either PVC insulating tape or the zip up cable ties placed every 50mm or less along the bunch holding all the wires in place. On the layout, I fix rows of 12 way 3 or 5 Amp terminal blocks and wire the ends of the cable bunch into these blocks. The other side of the blocks taking the wiring leading off to the layout. This means the cable is captive to the layout. Of course if you wanted to be able to completely remove the cabels then more 25 way D connectors would be needed on the layout end.

This picture shows the basic idea of 'home made' cables from flexible wires (7/0.2mm and 16/0.2mm in this case) and two sets of D connectors. While its acutely a baseboard to baseboard connection, the basic idea is the same.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z311/Flash_bang/P50-1.jpg

[Pascal]

Hi,
I am about to start building a control panel. I am a beginner.

From the thread, Flashbang says, '...it may make a nice article for an 'How to. 'A step by step guide and build' for the forum, especially if photos are taken as build progresses.' Does anyone know if this has been done, please?
Also, what would be appreciated would be a list of materials and where to obtain them from - any ideas?

I guess this part is going to be very very slow, knowing my ability at, joinery, soldering, wiring... etc. I'll certainly, 'have-a-go'! It may take some time...

Any support would be greatly appreciated.
Take care.

[Rog (RJ)]

There are many ways of making control panels and also different types of panel. Have a look at this (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38589-control-panels-show-us-yours/). Apologies for linking to another forum.

[Robotstar5]

There are many ways of making control panels and also different types of panel. Have a look at this (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/38589-control-panels-show-us-yours/). Apologies for linking to another forum.

WOW, some serious control panel's in that link. The one's for the club layouts I've operated were complex, but we had a couple of BT guys in the club that did all the wiring.

[Pascal]

Hi,
Many thanks for that link. If my brain was'nt hurting before it sure is now!
Lots and lots and lots of wires, pretty pictures and professional looking control boards, but no real explaination in detail where it all comes from and where it all goes.

From the link, I like the idea of 'blueeighties' on page 2 with the red and green LED's.
I figure I can make a schematic drawing on paper, sandwich that between two perspex/polycarbonate sheets (obtained from?), fitting that to some wood and drill holes.
I intend to use the Peco PL11 (surface motors) with the small ON/OFF/ON switches - where do the 3 wires from the motor go? And how to I wire up the LED's?
It appears that I am going to need LOADS of wire; where is the best place to buy? 16/0 or 24/0 or 32/0?


Sorry about all this, I think I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Please bear with me - I am a beginner.

Take care.

[Rog (RJ)]

If it was me, I would only have a single sheet of perspex/polycarbonate (B&Q maybe) over the top of the diagram and use aluminium sheet under it (B&Q again?).

Bear in mind that the threaded shafts on the switches are only about 5 to 6mm long and If you use materials that are too thick then you won't be able to get the fixing nut(s) on. The same can apply to LEDs.

Wiring diagram (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Rog_RJ/PointsControlWiring.gif)

[Pascal]

Hi,
Rog, many thanks for your prompt reply.
I'll have a look at B&Q tomorrow for perspex/polycarbonate and aluminium sheet.
Presumably gluing the two together will suffice. Good point concerning the length of threaded shafts on the switches – will need to keep the materials, ‘thin’.

LOVE the wiring diagram! Just what I was looking for! Very much appreciated.

I notice that a R 1K has been placed between the LED’s and the power source – could I use a 12v rated LED? Thus avoiding the need to solder all the resisters.

I will be using (mostly) surface mounted PECO PL11 point motors. Will I still need the PECO PL-13?

I will be buying a power supply, probably the Gaugemaster WM1/GM79 and CDU.

I have completed my schematic drawing with the help of a Control Panel Design Template found at: http://controlpaneldesigns.com/index_files/Design%20Template.pdf

I hope you don’t mind the questions... I am trying...
Many thanks for all you help and support.
Take care.

[Robotstar5]

I've seen a system using a single sheet of perspex about 3mm thick. On the REVERSE use car pinstriping tape or thin masking tape (3M is best) to make trackplan then paint black, remove masking tape and apply different coloured paints for various loops, sections etc to the clear areas.

[TWICK9]

Thats what I did with this control panel Robotstar5.

[alfaz-di-pi]

Hi Brian, that looks a brilliant piece of work there, did it take you long to make it, or was it an ongoing project at the time. Could you explain what all the banks of switches do, from left to right across the top. That is if they are switches.

Albert.

[TWICK9]

Hi Albert, Alas that layout was broken up last year. It took about two weeks to build, I worked at a car restoration firm so had every thing to hand.The large track plan shown on the panel was for the nineteen hidden storage sidings and the small one on the left was for part of the visible other end of the layout, There was an other control panel for the engine sheds. Starting from the left, the four switches where for street lamps house lights etc, Then nine red section switches for outer main line, Eleven yellow section switches for suburban routes, And ten section switches for the inner main line. The first four of each bank of switches had LEDs to show which route had been selected. The switches on the right where for the points and all color coded for each track. The orange section on the plan was for three shuttle trains run in sequence.

Regards Brian.

[alfaz-di-pi]

Why did you break it up Brian, there must have been a good reason, or did you want to change. I must admit that something on that scale would have me bamboozled, but if you know what your doing I suppose it is easy.

Albert.

[TWICK9]

Hi Albert,I have cancer and was told that I had months to live and didn't want the layout to be a burden on the wife. so I broke it up and a week after I sold the last of the stock they said that with a new type of treatment I would have a few more years. So I started the new layout using bits from the old one.
Regards Brian.

[alfaz-di-pi]

Sorry to hear that Brian, but pleased that you are able to go on. Hope you kept enough bits to build a decent layout.

Albert.

[Flashbang]

I notice that a R 1K has been placed between the LED’s and the power source – could I use a 12v rated LED? Thus avoiding the need to solder all the resisters.
You can indeed use 12 volt rated LEDs (Which have an inbuilt resistor) Simply connect their negative leads together and then wired to the negative of the supply.

I will be using (mostly) surface mounted PECO PL11 point motors. Will I still need the PECO PL-13?

You cannot fit a PL13 or PL15 switches to a PL11 surface mounting point motor.
You will need to either fit a small micro switch to the opposite side of the moving tie bar of the point from the motor fixing. Example of a micro switch...Link to Micro switch example (http://www.maplin.co.uk/sub-miniature-levermicroswitch-6451)
Or bond a PL13 switch to the points underside then use a Hornby style track pin or similar passed down through the hole in the tie bar into the operating hole of the PL13.

[Pascal]

Hi,
Many thanks for that information Flashbang – much appreciated.

I would like to use, 'turnout status indicators' on my control panel. Would you suggest the, ‘Micro Switch’ solution to be the easiest? If so, how would I go about wiring them?
Also, do you know the best place for obtaining the wire needed for point motors and the LED's?

Sorry for all the questions... but I guess I'll be needing more help as the layout develops. Hope no one minds.

Thanks again and take care.

[alfaz-di-pi]

Hi Pascal, do not mind about all the questions you need to ask, every question and answer you get, helps someone else to understand a little more about model railways and electrics, especially me. I too am not hot on the electrical side so I enjoy getting all the usfull pieces of information.

Albert.

[Flashbang]

Hi,
Many thanks for that information Flashbang – much appreciated.

I would like to use, 'turnout status indicators' on my control panel. Would you suggest the, ‘Micro Switch’ solution to be the easiest? If so, how would I go about wiring them?
Also, do you know the best place for obtaining the wire needed for point motors and the LED's?

Sorry for all the questions... but I guess I'll be needing more help as the layout develops. Hope no one minds.

Thanks again and take care.
Hi
Wiring the micro switch is identical to the Peco PL13. Three terminals on a micro switch often one off set more than the other two or marked as 'C' . This is the Common moving contact. The other two connections which can be marked as 'NO' and 'NC' - Normally Open and Normally Closed are the switched connections the C makes makes between them depending on the levers position.

As for wire.... Maplin (who tend to be a bit expensive!), Rapid if you're buying 100Mtr rolls. Or ebay too.
For solenoid motor operation (PL10 or PL11 etc) use at least 16/0.2mm wire for all three wires. For indication feeds for the LEDs 7/0.2mm will be fine.
Both of these wires are referred to as 'Equipment Wire' (then the wire size) e.g. Equipment wire 16/0.2mm

Example from the Maplin (They have High Street stores too)... 16/0.2mm wire (http://www.maplin.co.uk/equipment-wire-16-0.2-6197)
7/0.2mm wire (http://www.maplin.co.uk/equipment-wire-7-0.2-6192)

[Pascal]

Hi,
Albert, thanks very much for that reassurance – dose make me feel a little happier and not as reticent as I normally am.

Flashbang – thank you very much indeed. The info’ on where to obtain supplies and what type of wire is very valuable. I’ll be putting an order in this weekend... it’s only money! Not too sure about 100m... probably wire up Carnforth station at that.

Appreciate the knowledge on wiring up a micro switch – but – I do have another question:
The PL13 fixes to the base of the PL10. How does the micro switch connect and or fix? I am hoping to use mainly the surface mounted motors PL11.

Take care and thanks again.

[Flashbang]

<Snip>
Appreciate the knowledge on wiring up a micro switch – but – I do have another question:
The PL13 fixes to the base of the PL10. How does the micro switch connect and or fix? I am hoping to use mainly the surface mounted motors PL11.

Take care and thanks again.
Hi
A micro switch would have to be screwed or glued to the baseboard top, so as its operating lever is pressed in when the points moving tie bar is moved over towards the micro switch. Its lever is released allowing the switches internal contact to change-over when the point is moved the opposite way.

[Pascal]

Hi,
Many thanks for your reply.

And I thought using the surface mounting motors (PL11) would be simplest and easiest way to go... naive or what... Need to have a re-think!

So, would I be correct in thinking that it is best to use a, ‘turnout motor’, fixing it underneath the layout? That would then enable the use of PL13 and so get the, 'turnout status LED indicators' working.

Knowing that I would like the LED’s on my control panel to work and the point motor, what, ‘turnout motors’ would you recommend?

Take care.

[Flashbang]

Hi
You could use the Seep PM1 which has a built in change-over switch - Example of Seep PM1 (http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Seep-PM-1-Seep-Point-Motor-Switched/) These are cheaper than a Peco PL10/PL13 combination!

Or use a Peco PL10E with a PL13 fitted. PL10E example (http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Peco-PL-10E-Turnout-Motor-%28Extended-Pin%29/) has a longer (Extended) drive pin so it can be mounted under baseboard. You may also want to add a PL9 mounting plate? Example of PL9 (http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Peco-PL-9-Mounting-Plates-for-use-with-PL-10/)

[Pascal]

Hi,
Thanks for your prompt reply to my dilemma.

The Seep PM1 is certainly a cheaper option than the Peco PL10/13.
But, would I still be able to connect this motor to the control panel having the, 'turnout status LED indicators' working - green for straight on, red for the turn off? If so, how would I connect the wires?
As I understand things point motor wiring is separate from the control panel LED's in terms of, 'wiring'..?

Sorry to be such a pain, I would just like to get it clear, 'in my head'.

Knowing the level I am at, what would you do?

Take care.

[Flashbang]

Hi
Wire a Seep as per this link..
Link to wiring (http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Seep%20motor%20Ind%20wiring-1.gif)
The Seep PM1 has six solder connection pads.
A B C are for the motors operation over and back.
D E F and the change-over contacts. F makes to either D or E depending on the motor/point position.

[Robotstar5]

Not too sure about 100m... probably wire up Carnforth station at that.

You'll be surprised how much cable you can get through wiring a layout! :)
when running cables, leave a bit of "slack" at the end (about 50mm) always handy to have a bit spare for re-making connections in the future.

[Pascal]

Hi,
Thanks again Flashbang.
I have placed an order with Rapid Electonics for, 'some wire', OK a fair bit of the stuff! Plus a few other items.

I'll obtain some of the Seep PM1 switches next week. Firstly, I'll do a, 'trial'. Wire everything up - away from the layout and see if it works... If not I know where to come for some help..?

Robotstar5: Thanks very much for the tip on leaving a bit of, 'slack' at the end. I have ordered 100m lengths... should be enough :)

Take care.

[andy757]

you might want to read my comments on the thread "wiring track" and see what problems I'm having with wiring SEEP motors :(

[Flashbang]

Hi
While Andy is having some problems, I have used these point motors for years and if they are positioned correctly (and that's a critical part of their installation) directly under the points moving tie bar and when being fitted both the point blades and motor are held central, they work very well.

I recommend soldering six short wires of 16/0.2mm wire each approx. 6" to 10" inches long to the solder pads on the PM1, then connect these wires other end into a six way piece of 5Amp terminal block. This will make the electrical connection much easier under the baseboards. Plus it gives a place to aid fault finding testing if ever needed.

[Pascal]

Hi,
Andy757: So sorry to learn about your difficulties. It does sound as if you are further down the track than me (forgive the pun).
Looks like fun and games ahead... it does get frustrating! I'm in the same boat - not 100% sure or clear what I'm doing. But, I aim to get there in the end!
But a hobby should be something that we enjoy doing. Think of it as a challenge. I'm sure with the help and support that is on this forum you'll be up and running.

Flashbang: Quick question: you mentioned... 'connect these wires other end into a six way piece of 5Amp terminal block'. I have just ordered 3Amp terminal blocks... will these be Ok or should I change my order?

Appreciate the support.
Take care.

[Robotstar5]

Quick question: you mentioned... 'connect these wires other end into a six way piece of 5Amp terminal block'. I have just ordered 3Amp terminal blocks... will these be Ok or should I change my order?

3A terminal blocks will be fine.

[Flashbang]

Hi Pascal,
Your question has been answered by Robotstar5 correctly.
3Amp or 5Amp are virtually the same size anyway!

[andy757]

and I thought only 3 connections are made on the point motor ? Flashbang mentions 6 wires :confused:

[retroaudio]

Hi Andy,

3 wires control the motor, the second 3 are to the built in accessory switch, used for frog polarity if required (electrofrog points) or pehaps LED's on your control panel to show which way the point is set. Of cousre you may not need to use it at all!

Hope this helps,

Richard.

[andy757]

aha, so A B and C for me then. Gotcha

[andy757]

Update on the building of my own panel.

Finally got the point motors working after much frustration and yesterday, I managed to install 8 motors.

Panel photos attached, I've tried to be as neat as possible with the wiring and I guess for a first attempt at making a control panel from scratch, it's not bad :o

[alfaz-di-pi]

You have made a nice neat job of that panel Andy, and the wiring is extremely neat, a credit to you. Are you not glad you persevered.

Albert.

[Flashbang]

Looking really good Andy
Glad you're up and running. :)
Said you'd be pleased once you overcame the problem. ;);)

[andy757]

As frustrating as it was, I'm not the sort of person to give up easily although it did cross my mind. I wish now though I had not painted the panel box black :confused:

[retroaudio]

Nice job mate,

neatness now pays dividends later!

Cheers,

Richard

[andy757]

I forgot to mention that above each panel will be the diagram for points and lighting, maybe sandwiched between sheets of thin perspex :rolleyes:

[alfaz-di-pi]

If you don't like the black then paint it another colour.

Albert.