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Old 21-04-2017, 10:57 AM   #1
dougfoot
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Default Electrofrog point motors

As a newcomer to dcc I have managed (with help from members) to get the track working satisfactorily.
My next challenge is to motorise the points with polarity switching. I think I understand how to wire Seep pm1 points but it looks like an accessory power supply is needed as my NCE Powercab does not have such an output. Would it save some spaghetti to run an accessory bus? I also think a CDU would be necessary.
Are my assumptions correct? Any advice on specific makes would be welcome.
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Old 21-04-2017, 11:10 AM   #2
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You will need a CDU and there are a couple of ways to do this and also not use a CDU, there's a gaugemaster CDU, there's a a DCC Concepts ADS-2fx with built in CDO and a few other goodies or just go for DCC Concepts Cobalt Digital Point Motors, No CDU require and they get there power from the DCC Buse and only require 4 wires to control panel to operate the points and give 2 X LED's to show which way the points are set.

Gaugemaster CDU
http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_deta...augemaster+CDU

DCC COncepts 2 or 8 way ADS-fx
http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products...coder-2-output

DCC Digital PM....
http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/...CP_CB1DiP.html
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Old 21-04-2017, 12:16 PM   #3
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It seems you are happy to use Seep motors in which case I presume you are going for analogue control i.e. a simple momentary or passing contact switch rather than the (in my opinion) unnecessary complication of DCC control for the points.
You will need a 16v ac supply, available very inexpensively, and you should really fit a CDU, again easy and cheap to find. This will give you a positive and reliable method of throwing the point. Just make sure the point motor is correctly aligned and fitted.
You can use the inbuilt switch on the point motor to change frog polarity - follow the wiring instructions that came with the motor and the point. Again its reliability is dependent on correct alignment of the motor. Also fit insulated rail joiners to both rails of the frog.
Wire up one point at a time and check for shorts - if you find you have a short just swap the feed wires from the rails to to the PM1.
Alternatively, Gaugemaster sell an electronic polarity switch which will do the job automatically on DCC layouts - they have had quite good reviews.
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Old 21-04-2017, 02:26 PM   #4
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For analogue control of point motor you do not use a Bus pair of wires. Each motor (PM1 etc) has three wires. Two are for operation left or right (connect to A & B on Seep) and the third the return (Seep PM1 tag C). You can use a larger size of wire for the return and connect all motor return wires onto this one wire.
Use a CDU to give improved operation on analogue and also to help prevent accidental coil burn out should a switch remain On for too long. Feed the CDU with 16v AC or 19 to 21v DC.

On a Seep PM1 connect the two track feed wires to D & E and the frog of the point to F.

For DCC Digital operation of the Seep PM1 you must use Accessory Decoders that provides a pulse output. These interface between the DCC supply and the point motor coils. Accessory decoders come in various numbers of outputs often 2 or 4 or 8 ways. Some acc decoders also allow additional panel switches to be used too.

If you want to use analogue stall types of point motors like the Tortoise or Cobalt operated from the DCC system you will need an accessory decoder capable of providing a continious output.
Another option with Cobalt motors is to obtain their Digital version. These have a built in decoder and offer additional panel switch operation too, plus contacts for frog switching and another set of change over contacts for use as desired.
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Old 21-04-2017, 07:32 PM   #5
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Thanks for the info. Plenty to think about...
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Old 21-04-2017, 07:37 PM   #6
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You can control the Cobalt Digital with your NCE handset as a Accessory 1 or 2 are ok, i have about 40+ of them so its a toggle switch and simple control panels (3)
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Old 23-04-2017, 03:03 PM   #7
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You know the 16v AC power supply you mentioned, is that the Gaugemaster item that looks like a phone charger? Is it polarity conscious and if so which wire is output and which is return?
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Old 23-04-2017, 04:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfoot View Post
You know the 16v AC power supply you mentioned, is that the Gaugemaster item that looks like a phone charger? Is it polarity conscious and if so which wire is output and which is return?
Yes it does look like a phone charger. On the side of the unit is a diagram that will indicate the polarity of the plug (usually a 2.1mm jack plug). One of the wires will usually be black the other black with a grey stripe - there may be a convention as to which is +ve and -ve, but I cut one wire and check with a multimeter between the cut end and the jack plug to confirm polarity, then label it before cutting the other wire. I do this as I believe CDUs are polarity sensitive and often have screw fittings for the wire terminals.
Someone with proper electrical knowledge will be along shortly but for what it's worth, that's how I do it.
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Old 23-04-2017, 06:16 PM   #9
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Very unusual for a CDU to be polarity conscious. The vast majority are designed for use with AC where the polarity is changing at 50 or 60 Hertz (50 or 60 cycles per second) so polarity is irrelevant.
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Old 23-04-2017, 06:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rog (RJ) View Post
Very unusual for a CDU to be polarity conscious. The vast majority are designed for use with AC where the polarity is changing at 50 or 60 Hertz (50 or 60 cycles per second) so polarity is irrelevant.
I only said that as I recall the Gaugemaster CDU instructions show the supply wires as +ve and -ve . But if it doesn't matter all the better.

Sorry, my turn to give dodgy advice.
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