Adding Droppers to Points.

User avatar
Journeyman
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#11

Post by Journeyman »

Thanks darkscot, that helps as I can now look them up. These are part of a big box of track so I will be using them or some very untidy Hornby points depending on how reliable I can make the electrical connection to the blades.

Thanks, Dave.
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:49 pm
Location: SE Kent
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#12

Post by Brian »

Hi
Not 100% sure but the rails appear to be steel? - Test with a magnet - Steel will attract while Nickel Silver rail will not.

If steel rail you will find it much harder to solder to the rails and will probably need a flux to be applied which is suitable for electrical soldering. Not "Plumbers" types of flux as these contain acid!

IF you can solder then linking across on the underside outer stock rail to closure rail on each side should be possible. Making the soldered joint between the frog and the blade pivots. This may involve cutting away any sleeper webbing linking two sleepers together. :D
Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
User avatar
darkscot
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:03 am
Location: West Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#13

Post by darkscot »

I know the very early (1980s) Lima track was stainless steel, but don't know if they ever switched to nickel silver.
Many times the wrong train took me to the right place.
User avatar
Journeyman
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#14

Post by Journeyman »

Thanks Brian and darkscot, yes they are ordinary steel so far I’ve no problem soldering on the steel track using Fluxite which I think is the same flux as used in Rosin Cored Soldering Wire.
There are Bridging Wires built in joining the Stock Rails to the Frog Rails so all I need to do is put droppers on the stock rails. The blades are held in place by three sleepers that slide on top of a steel plate, the plate hides the pivot point from below.
Think I will try them first and see if the wiper connection is good enough for running.

Thanks again for all your help,
Dave.
Viscount
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:11 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#15

Post by Viscount »

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122206042866 ... %3A2334524

If the link has worked, this type of relay will allow the points motor control lines to also switch the relay which in turn can control the points track feeds. I have used a few with success. The same can also be used to effect a switch in the polarity of a return loop. Hope the link works or this will not look like a good post!
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:49 pm
Location: SE Kent
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#16

Post by Brian »

What you are suggesting is a Twin Coil Latching Relay fed from the two pulses being sent to the solinoid motors coils, but only if using DC as the pulse. If using AC then diodes will be needed.

The idea is well documented and an example can be seen here... Click Link
Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
User avatar
teedoubleudee
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:53 pm
Location: Downham Market
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#17

Post by teedoubleudee »

Of course this type of circuit (which is very useful - I've used it myself) doesn't cover the old aged problem of the relay output not necessarily mirroring the ACTUAL point position. The relay will almost always change over but the point motor may stall or only partially move due to mechanical resistance for example. The ONLY true way of ensuring actual point position reflecting position indication are both in sync is to use a lever operated micro switch that is operated by the actual point actuator mechanism. Some Seep motors use a crude sliding switch to achieve this but is not 100% fool proof.

I know this information has been shared many many times on this and other forums, but I thought it worthwhile in mentioning again for the benefit of newcomers to the world of model railway electronics.
Most people are shocked when they find out how bad I am as an electrician
User avatar
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:49 pm
Location: SE Kent
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#18

Post by Brian »

Very true :D
However, you would need two micro switches per point to prove both the Normal and Reverse point positions have been reached correctly!
Using one micro switch would only prove the motor has moved away from that position and may not have reached to opposite side. All this means a lot of working setting up two micro switches and of course additional wiring too. But its the way the real railway proves point blades electrically :D
Image << Click the Icon to go to my website
User avatar
Journeyman
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#19

Post by Journeyman »

Thanks Viscount the link does work and also thanks to Brian for the pointers and explanation and teedoubleudee for further information.

All the points are in a very poor state, for the Hornby points on the far side of the layout I’m hoping to make some over centre springs that will physically keep the point blades in place.
The idea is to make bell cranks using over centre springs and then just a nudge rod to trigger it. Should keep the expenses down and all the parts can be made out of stuff cluttering up the boatshed.

Cheers, Dave.
Last edited by Journeyman on Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
teedoubleudee
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:53 pm
Location: Downham Market
Contact:

Re: Adding Droppers to Points.

#20

Post by teedoubleudee »

Brian wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:30 am Very true :D
However, you would need two micro switches per point to prove both the Normal and Reverse point positions have been reached correctly!
Using one micro switch would only prove the motor has moved away from that position and may not have reached to opposite side. All this means a lot of working setting up two micro switches and of course additional wiring too. But its the way the real railway proves point blades electrically :D
Agreed Brian, I should have said a pair of lever operated micro switches. Lots of work indeed but I would only envisage it's use on points that were well out of sight and could save an expensive accident!

Personally I don't use any visible indication of point position as all my turnouts are well in sight though I do make a lot of use of relays for frog polarity and track presence in my quest to further automate my layout. I use a lot of those latching relays identified above in my circuits which are also excellent in retaining information following a planned (or unplanned!) power loss.
Most people are shocked when they find out how bad I am as an electrician
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests